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Jul. 27th, 2004

You know how there are times when you are able to explain yourself with such precision that it startles even you when you look back and read what you wrote?

I just had a moment like that:

fanlain said "Give it and yourself time. If she loved you, she'd understand."

To which I quipped:
I don't care if she says she loves me or not anymore, because apparently her definition of love is far far inferior to the feelings that I had for her. This was demonstrated by the sheer simplicity with which she decided to tromp on my heart with a crowbar formed of the words: "I want to break up."

If she loved me, she would have understood, she would have said something else, she would have tried to work it out. I looked at it with one question in my mind; "Do I love her enough to try to work this out?", and my answer was invariably yes. Right up until the moment that she proved irrevocably that she did not love me in the same capacity. If she loved me, should would have shown it by saying something other than "I want to break up."

She can move on with her love, life, and persuit of happiness. I'm not part of it anymore and I wouldn't want to be after the infantile way in which she handled my emotions.

I intend to give myself time. But I've already wasted more time on that particular 'it' than has been needed or apparently even more than was wanted. I'm not going to devote my time to attempting to reconcile with someone like that.

Heather, I hope you're reading this. I know you read the last 2, I have trackers on them.


* Xander the not so spiteful, but very bitter.


( 17 comments — Leave a comment )
Jul. 28th, 2004 08:48 am (UTC)
You assume she's being infantile. When I broke up with my last boyfriend, whom I loved very much, it was a very simple, "I can't do this anymore."

Maybe she just doesn't express emotion the same way you expected her to, and she didn't want to hurt you more by making this a long, drawn-out process. So she just ended it.

I know it hurts, and you're angry. But don't just assume that she doesn't care at all anymore. If she didn't she wouldn't still be reading your LJ.
Jul. 28th, 2004 06:09 pm (UTC)
i'm inclined to agree. you are hurt and upset, and thats totally valid. but please dont assume that she doesnt care about you, or not as much as you care about her just bc of her reaction. i mean, you already know that you two have differences of opinions, and this might be another diff way of showing things. you havent had all of her past experiences, so you dont know if she is reacting this way bc life taught her thats the way to do it. it doesnt excuse her action, but maybe she's afraid and not sure what to do. maybe she needs coaxing from you to do the right thing TOGETHER, maybe she doesnt know how to do it. then you decide if you love her enough to try once more, or if you dont care enough to fight for her. there's only so much you can try...but you can at least try that much until youve decided that w/o a doubt youve tried hard and wont regret anything else. and if she does read all this, i hope if she does care she can at least realize she needs to make even a teensy step to show you that too. sometimes emotions frighten ppl, its a strange thing, but everyone is succeptable no matter how well they think they know whats going on. i hope it has a happy ending[rebeginning]
Jul. 29th, 2004 07:10 pm (UTC)
She's not going to get any coaxing from me. Of any sort. Not now, not next week, not next month. Never.

I don't give that sort of second chance to people that trample my heart.

It was not a happy ending, nor do I expect to have it improve. But it was an ending, and not just a pause.

Jul. 30th, 2004 04:24 am (UTC)
only the ppl you love have the ability to hurt you the worst. if you never expect to allow someone you love to hurt you, then dont fall in love
Jul. 30th, 2004 12:00 pm (UTC)
Dear, you're heading off into left field.

It's not that I'm not giving her a second chance because she hurt me. It's that I'm not giving her a second chance because of -how- she hurt me. Due to the way in which she chose to handle it, I learned a bit more about how she operates. And I didn't like it. Not because it hurt (it did), but because it indicated to me a certain lack of moral principle that I feel to be necessary to an operational relationship.

I know love hurts. I know that the people that you love the most have the most capacity to hurt you. That doesn't mean that I have to be hurt to realize that the person loves me. I know she did/does. I just don't happen to believe anymore that her version of 'love' is equivalent to mine.

Jul. 29th, 2004 07:00 pm (UTC)
I didn't assume that she's being infantile, I labelled her actions as infantile. That's a matter of opinion. I consider the fashion in which she handled the situation to have been rather infantile. I'm not assuming that she doesn't care at all anymore, I just realize that her definition of care doesn't extend to encompass quite what I consider to be 'love'. If it did, she wouldn't have dumped me over the phone without so much as a conversation beforehand.

Jul. 28th, 2004 09:33 am (UTC)
yeah, i'm going to have to go with that first comment. just because it sounded easy to her, and just because the words were simple, it doesn't mean that it was easy or simple or that the depth of her feelings for you were so much less than yours for her. i think that quantifying feeling/depth of feeling is just a mire that we get ourselves into and can't get ourselves out of.
it is quite possible that she told you that over the phone because she felt she had to do it and didn't know if she could any other way. that doesn't excuse her, but i think that judging the depth of her feeling based on that is probably not the best way to go.
i know you are hurt, and you know i love you and that i care about you. just tossing another perspective in.
Jul. 29th, 2004 07:03 pm (UTC)
Oh but it does mean exactly that. :) I'm not being bitter at the moment, and I simply see that she doesn't/didn't love in quite the same capacity as I. I accept that.

I think that if she couldn't do it any other way, then there was probably a different solution. That's my entire point. Either she was horrendously inconsiderate of my feelings, or she simply didn't have the guts to do anything else. Either way, I'd call it pretty indicative of an emotional base/complex that I don't particularly wish to spend time around. Especially if the end result is a phone call at 11pm. :)

Jul. 30th, 2004 12:39 pm (UTC)
Oh but it does mean exactly that.

no, it doesn't. you are simplifying something as complicated as love and how we do things in spite of/because of/in the midst of love.

if it makes you feel better to judge her so, i'm not stopping you. but i don't think that you are making that judgment based on anything aside from your assumption that, since she didn't do things the way you would, she didn't feel as much as you did.

on the other hand, if you are going to accuse people of being infnatile, putting trackers on things to see if she's reading and then telling her you know she's reading it is really fucking infantile as well as creepy. so, i dunno.

finally, dumping somebody over the phone is not cool, and i don't think it is excusable. but there are possible reasons for it that i think you haven't even begun to consider and as long as you are feeling self-righteous and hurt about it, you never will.
Jul. 30th, 2004 01:09 pm (UTC)
Thank you. :)
*nods* I appreciate you pointing a couple things out.

I don't feel I'm judging her though. I feel that I am trying to explain why exactly she acted the way she did instead of having enough respect for me to talk to me in person.

As for the maturity level of me tracking who reads my journal... Well... Yes, I'm not very mature about that. ;) Creepy isn't really it though.

I'm not simplifying things. Or at least, I'm not trying to. I just see it like this:

If I love someone, as I did/do her, I would respect them enough as a person to give them closure and a face to face confrontation. It's not a matter of things that we do in spite of/because of/in the midst of, it's a matter of human respect. I found to be highly irritating the amount of disregard she showed for my feelings when she chose to handle things over the phone. I'm irritated that she dumped me, but more so I'm pissed off about the way in which she did it. I think that the phone call technique is probably the most hurtful way to dump someone, and as such, find it hard to believe that she loved/loves me in the same way I did/do her. I would make every effort to not intentionally hurt someone that I cared deeply about. It's not a mattter of simplification, it's a matter of respect and reverence.

I'm rambling...

What possible reasons for it are there? I've considered quite a few now that I've been stuck on the spot, but none of them really explain things any better than my current working theory:

She dislikes confrontation to the extreme. So much so, in fact, that it very nearly controls how she reacts to certain situations. In the past, with her past relationships, she has never actually 'worked' anything out. She and the guy simply broke up after the first fight. I think maybe she's simply scared of intense emotions, whether they're hers or someone else's. As such, the fact that she and I got to fight #2 was apparently too much for her. I'm aware that I'm not an easy person to get along with sometimes, but I don't think that is reason to avoid conversation entirely during times of tension.

I really have given it quite a bit of thought. Are there explanations that you can think of that you think I ought to consider?

Jul. 30th, 2004 02:48 pm (UTC)
Re: Thank you. :)
i understand your perspective. and i agree--that's the angle i take in regard to these kinds of things.
i just fear that you are doing her and her feelings a disservice by saying that they are less because she didn't do things the way you would.

and no, i didn't come up with other suggestions. i think my point was mainly that in this kind of situation, when you aren't able to read the mind of the other person, the shades of possibility are quite numerous.

a phobia of confrontation is a big and scary thing--i don't have it, obviously, but sarah does. and it has created numerous conflicts for us and made things painful for both of us. it takes a lot of courage for her to come deal with a problem we are having in person--and i don't know if her confrontation thing is so much a phobia as it is a fear. but it--as well as a fear of what she is feeling--has led her to do and say a number of things that have hurt immensely. and she's run away from us a number of times.
so don't think i don't know how you are feeling. i'm lucky enough that she has been determined enough to keep trying (after i've talked her back into it way too many times.)
and she's told me outright that she doesn't love me as much as i love her. the funny thing is, i don't believe it anymore, because i finally figured out why she told me that.
in any case, i guess what i mean to say is that
1. i totally understand your position
2. i don't think you should assume that what she did means she felt less than you did.

(and i'm not trying to solve any problems. i swear! i just couldn't quite let this one slide, i guess i felt too strongly about it.)

also, i still think the tracking thing is creepy. not even so much that you did it, but that you said so. *shrug*
Jul. 30th, 2004 02:59 pm (UTC)
Re: Thank you. :)
I guess I just don't understand how she could feel as much for me as I did if she was willing to be that disrespectful of my feelings.

I wonder if we're going to see her out at a club anytime soon. I'm guessing not. That would cause confrontation.

Heather simply wasn't determined to keep trying. She was determined to have a good relationship and if it didn't look like it was going to be, she broke things off. Those are her words, not mine.

I don't see how me keeping tabs on my readers is creepy. It's my journal and I like to know who I'm talking to when I post something 'public'. I, personally, find it creepy that she still was reading my journal.

Jul. 30th, 2004 03:02 pm (UTC)
Re: Thank you. :)
fear and love are so incompatible.

keeping tabs on your readers doesn't qualify so much as creepy. it was the whole--"i know you're reading me" thing that was creepy to me.

i don't see why it is creepy that she was reading your journal. if anything, it seems to me that it means she really does care.
Jul. 30th, 2004 03:13 pm (UTC)
Re: Thank you. :)
I don't need proof that she cares. I know she cares/cared. What I do need is for her to either leave me alone and stay out of my life, or at least respect me enough to have a face to face talk.

I don't find it creepy that I informed her that I knew she was reading it. I find it far, far more creepy that she was still reading my journal and -not commenting- a week and a half after she dumped me.

That's like telling a stalker that you're aware of their stalking.

Fear and love are incompatible, on that we certainly agree.

Jul. 30th, 2004 04:08 pm (UTC)
Re: Thank you. :)
I guess I should have phrased it like this:
I keep track of who reads my journal.

I didn't specifically track those two entries looking to see if she read them. I checked my hit-log and was rather surprised to see her IP on it.

Jul. 28th, 2004 02:20 pm (UTC)
I'm glad you have a strong definition and recognization of your feelings. I only wish they could have been reciprocated. *hugs*
Jul. 29th, 2004 07:05 pm (UTC)
*hugs* Are you clairvoyant? Slight case of telepathy?

Get outta my head!

( 17 comments — Leave a comment )

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